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Thread: Safe Payment Methods In Canada.

  1. #1
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    Safe Payment Methods In Canada.

    When it comes to buying / selling / trading watches online, there is much to be concerned about. The adage "buyer beware" extends equally to "seller beware". Either party may get clipped if they are not vigillent.

    I have seen so many threads on other watch forums debating the merits of the payment schemes available to them. It seems that for every guy who gets "scammed", there erupts a new round of debates, with the same handful of guys chiming in on why you should do it one way, or shouldn't do it another.

    The truth is, if you have your wits about you, any payment method will work.

    And here in Canada, it is far easier to receive and verify payments than it is for our friends south of the border.

    Some of the most obvious payment methods are:

    Bank wire.
    Third party deposit.
    Bank transfer.
    Email interac,

    I keep reading about scammers buying watches in the US where the agreed payment method is bank wire. The buyer says the wire has been made. The seller checks his account every hour, and then lo and behold, the funds arrive. The happy seller then trods off to his local fedex branch and sends out the watch. Three weeks later, the bank reverses the payment and seizes back the money from the seller's account. What happened? The buyer never sent a wire. He simply deposited a fake cashier cheque directly to the sellers bank account.

    This tragic result could have easily been avoided if the seller had called or visited his bank to verify how the funds arrived. A simple phone call usually does it. In Canada, the banks charge an "INCOMING WIRE FEE" of (usually) $15. Its impossible to miss. You check your account and there are 2 fresh entries; the funds and the fee. If you don't see both, then you call or visit your bank.

    This brings us to "third party deposit". Obviously, this can only be done for domestic deals. We trust our fellow Canadian traders, but we still can't let our guard down. Anyone can visit any branch of any Canadian bank, coast to coast, and make a third party deposit. Unless you are trading with a frequent partner, insist that the buyer only deposit cash or bank draft. If a cash deposit is made, the teller notes it, and it can be easily verified by your own branch. Same for a bank draft. In fact, in many cases, tellers are required to verify the bank draft by calling the other bank before they deposit it. If you cannot verify that funds were deposited by cash or bank draft, wait one day. By the next day, your own branch can verify the instrument used by visiting the posted audit trail. In many banks, third party cheques (basic cheques) may be placed on hold pending clearance. If someone tries to trick you by depositing in this manner, it may show up as "funds unavailable" on your account online.

    Bank transfer. So, by not such a great co-incidence, you and your trading partner share the same bank. Funds can easily be transferred from one account to another, and anyone in your bank can verify how the funds arrived. A reasonably safe method, but not without any pitfalls. One major one is that the buyer can deposit bogus funds to his account, and then transfer those funds over to you. I am not sure whether or not those funds can be recalled from you, so you should verify this with your bank if you suspect this possibility for even a fleeting moment.

    I have done many a deal over the years where I wished to use convenient payment methods such as bank transfer, third party deposit or bank wire, and the seller balked because he was afraid to provide his personal banking information. Many of these deals ended in me sending money by paypal, and the seller "suffering" crazy fees in order to "protect his info". I have only one thing to say on this topic. There is no more information required for a transfer, deposit or wire that is not already encoded on your personal cheques! So, every cheque you write to whomever you write it, often complete strangers, has access to that same information. Has anything sinister ever happened to you as a consequence of simply writing a cheque? In any case, why shouldn't a buyer who is sending you money blindly have some of your personal information? That is a debate for another day.

    This brings me to the fourth method. EMAIL INTERAC. It astounds me regulary how few people actually know of and make use of this method. This method is the GOLD STANDARD for payments, and its exclusive to us right here in Canada. It suffers from only two limitations. The first is that each person has a daily limit on their account for how much they can transfer out. The second is that your smaller bank or credit union may not participate in the program. It costs the sender $1.00 per transfer, irregardless of the amount they send. A buck! A dollar store deal! Best of all, no actual personal information is provided to either party. You make a payment online, like any other bill, and then as payee you select "email interac". You then provide the receiver's name and email address and enter the amount you wish to send. The seller receives an email stating that he has received a money transfer from you. He then clicks on the icon of his bank (5 major banks) and it whisks him over to his account. He then logs in, answers the "skill testing" question, selects which account he wants the money in, and then PRESTO!, the money is in his hands. Brilliant! Then, once the money is deposited, the buyer receives an email letting him know that the transfer has been completed. Remember that each and every transaction has an auditable trail from one bank account to the other. In case of fraud, the bank holds all of the pertinent information that may be needed.

    I love the reaction I get from people who receive EMAIL INTERAC for the first time. It is an unbelievably efficient and economical system. It is limited by daily transfer limits, but you can petition the bank to raise yours if they are insufficient for the size of the purchases you generally make. I have often bought a watch on Friday, made, three payments over the weekend and had it shipped on Monday.

    There is simply no reason any more for a domestic deal to be completed by expensive payment schemes like paypal or western union, or even postal money orders for that manner.

    Trust, but don't be too trusting. It is not an insult to recount a stack of money after it has been handed to you. It is not an insult to verify payment information with your bank, even if it requires an extra day before shipping. And all but the most impatient buyers will respect you for it.

    Safe trading!
    I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
    Albert Einstein

  2. #2
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    very informative especially for someone like me who recently joined this watch trading experience, thank you so much!

  3. #3
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    Bobby, thank you for providing this information from the goodness of your heart.

  4. #4
    Senior Member watchthiswatch's Avatar
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    thanks for the info, very informative. I wish to add on the last comment you made regarding email money transfer. Eventhough the bank has all the info on the other party, if you are doobed, the bank will not do anything to assist you. I was recently buying a rolex and I gave the guy $100 via email transfer as a deposit, that I am serious buyer, and the transaction was supposed to be completed over paypal. To make the story short, the guy turned out to be a fraudster. When I went to the bank they wouldn't do anything for me. I went to police and they didn't seem to care much, just here complete this form sort of thing. So yes, the bank has the info on the other person but due to confidentiality etc. they will not give you anything. They will have that info for the police, in case they pursue the issue. The fact is that there are so many online scams, and frauds that police cannot go after them all. I believe they just take the info for statistical information and that's all. I never got my $100 back, and never got any help from my bank nor the police. So even though the email money transfer is great and I use it all the time, still treat it as cash...

  5. #5
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    As a buyer, what would stop the seller from just taking my payment (email interact/paypal, ect) and just not sending the item, or sending a replica (besides good moral fibre)? Is there any protection incase someone does not follow through with any of the above methods? For instance, does PayPal's buyer protection kick in if a deal goes wrong on WUS or CWC? Could the seller just say the money was gifted, considering it is not a deal on an E-store like Amazon/Ebay & I assume there is normally no receipt?

    I'm looking to pull the trigger on my first purchase online and I'm trying to understand the risks, and how to limit them.

    Thanks,

  6. #6
    Senior Member Nikolaevich's Avatar
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    Hi, guys! What about Skrill (former Moneybookers)? I am using it and i`m completely satisfied with it`s security system and easy to use interface. By the way, it is available for most countries, except the United States. For example, i`m from Belarus, and i can use PayPal, but with some restrictions for my country - Belarusians are allowed to make payments, but no to accept it from others, so the Skrill is the great solution for us. Yes, it has a complex and meticulous verification system, but it is good, cause it means a high degree of user safety.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdmccorkill View Post
    As a buyer, what would stop the seller from just taking my payment (email interact/paypal, ect) and just not sending the item, or sending a replica (besides good moral fibre)? Is there any protection incase someone does not follow through with any of the above methods? For instance, does PayPal's buyer protection kick in if a deal goes wrong on WUS or CWC? Could the seller just say the money was gifted, considering it is not a deal on an E-store like Amazon/Ebay & I assume there is normally no receipt?

    I'm looking to pull the trigger on my first purchase online and I'm trying to understand the risks, and how to limit them.

    Thanks,
    If I'm not mistaken, with PayPal here are two methods of payment. There is the gift option which is the same as giving someone money and the option in which the seller sends an invoice. This costs the seller 3% to PayPal, similar to a transaction to a retailer when accepting a credit card.

    After reading about it, with the invoice option there is more protection to the buyer if the item doesn't arrive. At that point PayPal can intervene and refund you your money.

    I recommend having things in writing when discussing a trade in the event you need to put that in action.

    Fingers crossed none of us need to deal with any of this bs.


    Alberto
    Albe100
    instagram: @dial_watch

  8. #8
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    As far as I'm concerned PayPal is the gold standard as a buyer if you want to cya. PayPal offers complete protection for items not received as well as for counterfeit and fraudulent items. It states exactly what it covers on Their buyer protection page.
    https://www.paypal.com/ca/webapps/mp...nline-shopping

    You can also send a payment as gift which eliminates all fees however the gift method waives all the protection noted.

  9. #9
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    I am just wonder what would you guy reference as trade? How would we deal with that?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #10
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    As someone new to this, is the standard always full payment up front, then the watch gets shipped once the Seller has confirmed receipt of funds?

    Doesn't that put the risk always on the buyer?

    Has anyone ever transferred funds in full and just never received a watch on here?

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